Religious people, did you know that?
The Romans had a lot of knowledge in the area of physics due to people like Archimedes?
They had a common practice in which they use the modern tech at that time to make the people think there were miracles happening.
Also, it was also common for Roman high class to sleep around with women in countries they owned. This includes Israel.
The Romans also knew how to make powdered wine.
In the case of Jesus turning water into wine; The chef remarks that he'll abstain from age old traditions of serving the best wine first by serving it last.
This means that the wine actually didn't taste good.
This also meant that people were still drinking the wine served prior to it running out. Once the people are drunk they will drink anything they think has alcohol.
In fact, the powdered mix doesn't contain alcohol. After this, the disciples put a lot of faith in Jesus.
The miric
Healing sick people.. how do you know they weren't planted there?
I've been to one of Benny Hinn's ministry he did in a country other than the U.S.
What I saw.. Was him making a person walk who was in a wheel chair. I wasn't convinced by the acting of the person. These people were conveniently placed up front.
The old lady just got up and started running…… with a non-believable happy face.
A person who had just been healed from a life long disability, would not start running as their muscles are too weak for that.
Also, they wouldn't run around with their hands in the air and a happy face.
They'd be on their knees greatly thanking the lord.
There were a lot of disabled people. I sat on a balcony on top of where they were. There was a white tape that prevented them from reaching the stage where Benny Hinn was. Benny Hinn also had body guards who blocked the side access.
The other prayer people were the ones who came over to the disabled and prayed for them. Non of them walked home healed.
Miracles you say? I say fraud.
arch9
Who Jesus or Benny Hinn? I haven't heard of any interviews of the people he's healed or their friends and families.
Also, if Benny Hinn can heal the sick. He would be a scientific marvel and medical science would be looking into him.
He probably denies any request made to come heal the sick at hospitals. You know, places that have actually diagnosed sick people.
Jim
Would you care to reveal the doctrine that disagrees with what I said?
It is entirely possible to feign miracles even in ancient times.
Hearing it second hand ages later from a book… I don't have to explain to you why this is not a solid foundation for belief right?
Alexis…
Do you know who Archimedes is? It doesn't require that much to read and remember these facts….
Also, I have done research and read interesting articles on ancient society.
They have these engineering marvels at museums.
There is the clock that runs on string and water.
The Romans were a very inventive bunch with all these engineering feats.
Cricket
Where do I begin.. I'll start with
1.) What if she wasn't *****? What if it was consent. Women are attracted to power. I believe Jesus had royal blood. An angel didn't visit Joseph, more like a very convincing person/s with swords.
2.) Wine was being served with food. Do you think regular people back then cared about the taste of wine? Only rich people cared because they can. Yes, you can get drunk off of anything that has alcohol. It doesn't suddenly lose its effects because it is from wine.
The person who sipped it knows Jesus is an important figure..
4.) (3?) Ever heard of body doubles? What Jesus gained? Jesus gained the acceptance of billions into his newly enforced religion. Was it a coincidence that the Roman empire switched to Christianity?
Your mistake is that you assume you know all about Jesus' life when all you know about him is what is written in the bible.
People say those things are myths because…. There is no evidence… People do want to know the truth
And the miracle of the blind man.. You know that the bible records a different number of them right?
In Luke, there was only one blind man. In Matthew, there were two. Luke 18:35, Matthew 20:30.
Also, why would Jesus ask a blind man what he wants? Shouldn't he already know?
Ok, if we assuming that there was only 1 blind man then I'll address that.
Ok if you read the verse, it says the blind man called unto Jesus. He's blind, the streets are noisy with commotion over Jesus.
Ok, lets say the people around him are whispering about him.
The verse says the blind man took off his robes and walked to Jesus. No one helped him. This means he could see a little.
So Jesus asked him what he wanted..
Blind man walks to Jesus..
The man's blindness sounds like post-blind syndrome. You can look it up.
Dust can cause blindness, especially if you sleep on dirty surfaces everyday.
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Comments on Religious people, did you know that?
1:29 am
Chair Lift Stairs
and charlatan. Ridiculous. Of course, you are an astute observer. I grew up with people like this.
What it indicates is the desperate desire people have for knowing things spiritual, but also our tendency to be lazy and accept the the ruses of fraudsters like this man.
He would never subject himself to a scientific research project. If it were real, except for some psychosomatic illnesses, the medical profession would be revolutionized. Demand for such miraculous healings would be demanded world wide by everyone.
9:48 pm
Chair Lift Stairs
You do realize that some of the people he cured were well know in the towns to be actually sick or crippled right?
9:31 pm
Chair Lift Stairs
whatever you say for yourself. that's what free will is all about
7:32 pm
Chair Lift Stairs
I learned during my trip to Israel:
Anyone can make water into wine by adding water to an empty clay vessel that formerly had wine dried into the clay…
Walking on water is easy in the sea of Galilee because the coral is just beneath the water and it looks like a person is walking on the water when they are really walking on the coral just beneath the surface.
People often go into comas and after three days can be brought out using methods taught in India, where Jesus was during that long absence until he returned at age 30. They also fast in India and heal the sick and can put their bodies into a death like trance for days…
Yes, one of Jewish priests accused Jesus of practicing magic which is illusions.. Maybe you are right and that is what he did… but at least he gave desperate people hope during a terrible time to be alive.
9:46 am
Chair Lift Stairs
you know, if you show a person who doesnt know anything about technology a CGI film of a lion turning into a human, that person would say you did witchcraft or magic or miracle.
i prefer the theory aliens came along just to ***** with the weaker minded humans.
11:37 am
Chair Lift Stairs
…..Religious people, did you know that? The Romans had a lot of knowledge in the area of physics due to people like Archimedes?
Yes, but what is your point there?
…..Miracles you say?
I believe in Jesus' miracles, not Benny Hinn's.
5:28 pm
Chair Lift Stairs
What the Romans knew or did not know is irrelevant.
Your interpretation of the wine miracle recorded in The Bible does not agree with the translations produced by accredited scholars of ancient Greek – not once, not twice, but literally hundreds of times. In other words, what you think it means ("This means that the wine actually didn't taste good") has no merit.
Benny Hinn "extravaganzas" always – *always* – place the disabled people near the front.
I don't disagree that Hinn is a fake – but you are quite obviously making several assumptions about the supposed healing miracle that are by no means apparent and certainly do not follow the dictates of logic.
Jim,
12:37 am
Chair Lift Stairs
I **** it when people are really vague about some sort of shocking evidence they are supposed to be providing for religions people … people who being up the "Romans" or the "Greeks" when they obviously OBVIOUSLY have never actually studied anything like ancient history, philosophy, Latin or Greek which would actually have given them a knowledge of those societies.
Similarly when people talk about "science" – I realise science is all very well and good, but what I **** is people saying "what about science" when they actually they're 15 and haven't really learned anything properly yet and really don't know what they're talking about!! Don't they realise it looks foolish and stupid?
5:04 am
Chair Lift Stairs
and you think we don't know this?
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not. (2 Peter 2:1-3)
3:45 am
Chair Lift Stairs
Why did you address this to "religious people" when you really meant Christians?
Anyway, to answer your claims:
1. You're implying that Mary was impregnated by a Roman soldier. If that had been true, she could have just told Joseph, and it wouldn't have been a big deal. If she was raped, she would not have been punished. She would have known that. When Mary told Joseph that she was pregnant, he was going to divorce her quietly, meaning, he did not believe that the pregnancy was caused by God and that she was still a virgin. He did not believe her until he was visited by an angel, who told him that Jesus was special.
2. Powdered wine? Are you serious? That's your excuse? Have you ever tried to actually get drunk off of wine? It doesn't start tasting better as a person has been drinking it, it tastes worse. Even the best wines start to leave a nasty aftertaste and make a person feel nauseous even when they're not drunk. And if I'm not mistaken, it's someone who hadn't taken a sip of wine who said it was the best, not someone who was already drunk anyway.
3. Your excuse for Jesus performing miracles is that they were planted? Seriously? Even though the townspeople all said that they knew these people, and knew that they were blind, deaf, crippled, or diseased? Even though people talked to the parents of the people who were healed, and these people all verified that the ones healed had been afflicted? Even though Jesus gained nothing for these miracles except to die a horrible, violent death?
You take people in the first century as fools. That's your first mistake.
You seem to believe that Jesus had money like Benny Hinn does. That's your second mistake.
You seem to believe that Jesus actually gained something from these miracles. That's your third and probably biggest mistake.
Look, if the miracles happened, and are not just a myth, they were real. Why do you think that so many people try to insist that the stories of all the miracles, and perhaps even Jesus' existence in itself, are all myths? They know it. And now you know it.
Keep searching. Peace!
Edit:
1. You imply that it could have been consensual. Perhaps. But not likely. As a betrothed virgin, Mary would have been very closely guarded. She would never have been alone. Further, she would have known that if she was found out, she would be put to death.
"Joseph wasn't visited by an angel… a convincing person(s) with a sword"? Are you serious? What would have been the purpose of anyone doing that? How would they have known to do that? Mary wasn't showing yet, and I'm sure that Joseph would have kept it a secret while he decided what to do about it, in order to protect Mary. How would anyone have known about the pregnancy? Again, why would anyone do that?
2. I never said a person can't get drunk off of wine. What I said is that it starts tasting disgusting, and makes a person nauseous even when they're not drunk. You don't think even the poor had taste buds? I'm sure they would have known the difference. Even the poor could grow grapes and ferment them. Wine was mostly all they drank back then, since the water often had things in it that made them sick. Even if you're poor, if you drink wine all the time, you start to develop a palate that's perfect for telling the difference between different wines. Any wine enthusiast or connoisseur could tell you that.
3. Body doubles? That's your excuse? Even Jesus' mother recognized Him on the cross. I'm pretty sure even if Jesus had a doppelganger, his mother would be able to tell the difference. It was Jesus on the cross. His disciples recognized Him after He was resurrected.
" What Jesus gained? Jesus gained the acceptance of billions into his newly enforced religion." Billions? Jesus only had a few dozen followers while He was alive, and just the same amount after being resurrected. It wasn't until after He left the Earth that Christianity began gaining numbers to the point where He now has billions of followers. If Jesus was only a man, and He just died and that was it, what good would billions of followers do Him?
And Christianity was not made the official religion of the Roman Empire until 380 AD. That would be 350 years (approximately) after Jesus' death. How would that help Jesus?
You say all I know of Jesus is what I've read about Him in the Bible. You're wrong. I've read a lot of early Christian writings from authors like Polycarp, Clement of Rome, Clement of Alexandria, Irenaeus, Ignatius of Antioch, along with the Didache. I also have a lot of Roman writings, along with a couple of books by greats such as Saint Augustine and Eusebius. Polycarp may not have known Jesus personally, but he did know John the Apostle. There's a veritable wealth of early Christian writings to study and learn from. Even the Apocryphal writings have valuable insights into early Christianity. I've read most of them, too.
As for the blind man. What, blind men are unable to walk towards a sound? You know that when you lose one sense, the others tend to compensate for it, right? Of course this man would have been able to walk towards Jesus. All he had to do was listen. And it is possible to focus on one sound even when there's a lot of background noise. Also, blind people don't always need help finding their way. If they're familiar with an area, they don't even need a cane.
As for the "post-blind syndrome" argument, you may find this helpful:
Also, along the same lines, the gospels could be recording different events, or they could be recording different versions of it. Remember that between Matthew and Luke, only one was traditionally an eye-witness. Luke was depending on other sources, one of which may have only remembered one blind man. It's also possible that Luke's source was the blind man himself.
Even eyewitnesses won't have exactly the same testimony. Why on Earth would you expect one man who may have been an eyewitness, and another who was not, to have exactly the same story?
12:55 am
Chair Lift Stairs
Thank you for your question. I have long maintained that miracles have significance only for those who witness them. You were not there in Jesus' time so you have reason to question. Benny Hinn? I think he is a lazy, unethical atheist who just wants to make an easy living off of other people.
1:33 am
Chair Lift Stairs
I do believe in miracles. I don't believe in Benny Hinn. Check out "The Door" magazine, for skeptical believers' views of people like Benny Hinn (and his haircut, too).
Your details about the story of Jesus turning the water into wine are incorrect: The common practice was indeed to serve the best wine first, so the lesser-quality wine would be served after the people were too drunk to know the difference. But the person tasting the wine said why wasn't this wine served first?–it tasted better than what had already been served.
That's in some ways beside the point, though–the important point is that just because there are charlatans out there, that doesn't mean that all miracles are the works of charlatans. And no, I don't expect I will ever see a public miracle myself (though I won't rule it out totally, either).
4:25 pm
Chair Lift Stairs
And l say that you want it to be a fraud. To begin with we all know that the Bible is a group of stories. It was not written to be so called lawyer proof. Therefore the Bible is full of holes that anyone can ask a question about. Take the miracles that Jesus performed. You can say how do we know he actually did them. The Bible could of inserted, that all the miracles were verified by a doctor. Then you would come back with , How do we know they were doctors and where is the documentation so that l can see for my self? Then after reading you would then asked if you can carbon test the paper to see it if is authentic. it would be a never ending cycle because you want to find fault with the Bible for what ever reason. All that energy waisted on your part trying to discredit the Bible.
6:13 pm
Chair Lift Stairs
It looks like you are searching hard for a 'get-out clause' so that you won't have to believe.
Where shall we start? The first miracle we are told of is at Cana of Galilee at the wedding feast when the wine ran out. Jesus' mother had appealed to him to help and the servants there obeyed what Jesus told them to do. What had been water was said by someone of importance to be better than the first he was given. He made the comment that normally people save the inferior wine till last but this was the opposite way round. Now you can believe this or not as you chose. I believe it.
Other miracles of healing. These days when people are said to be 'healed' I believe it is probably either a plant or as it were a placebo effect. When Jesus healed it was instant and total except in the case of the blind man whose healing was in two stages. First he saw 'men as trees'. But when Jesus healed it was altogether different. The apostles were bothered because a woman wanted to just touch him, so much was her faith in his power to heal, and instantly her 'issue of blood was healed'. I seem to remember she had had this awful weakening illness for twelve years prior to this, so others would see the change in her. A man paralysed from birth was able to run and jump, that is – muscles and tendons never used and shrunken could suddenly be brought to miraculous life. These things were witnessed by people who knew these sad folk who would have been condemned to a life of dependency on others until this time. You may not believe it, I do. x
9:27 pm
Chair Lift Stairs
Benny Hinn may be a fraud or he may be sincere or maybe even self deluded. I don't know what's in his heart. One thing I do know, is that the Christian faith, including faith in miracles, neither stands or falls on the sincerity of Benny Hinn. Benny Hinn's motives and practices have no bearing or relevance to the reliability of Christian faith.
You seem to have misinterpreted the passage of scripture referred to (and not considered the context). The reason that the miracle of turning water into wine was needed is because the wine supply had run out. This was incredibly embarrassing for the host. The comments were that Jesus' wine was superior to the wine previously consumed. It was such a surprise because, as you state, people care less about the quality of what they drink after their tastes have been dimmed. So it was generally accepted that you serve the best wine first.
To hinge the reliability of Christ's miracles on this single event is not justified. According to the Bible, Christ performed many more miracles than this one. This would be one of the least spectacular miracles of Christ.
Finally, finding a possible naturalistic way to explain away the miraculous does not in any way amount to "proof" that the actual event was not supernatural.
5:59 am
Chair Lift Stairs
Anybody who do not want to believe in something can come up with excuses.
Were you there? I bet you could have shown the people that Jesus was not real.
Or would you make a fool of yourself?
The mind can play lots of tricks on you. For instance…
If you do not want to believe, you will look for anything that could have happened.
And believe me you will find something that fits to what your mind is trying to do.
7:04 am
Chair Lift Stairs
And you said my question is boring. I just want to let you that your written post is too long.